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Feature Requests!
> Mallets and Ethno Drums
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| debatt |
 Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:52 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 1
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Hellu!
Perhaps an Adpak called Adpak Ethno Drums would be of interest! This should
include djembe, timbales, tablas, congas, quicha etc.
I have just installed my Add drums and RetroPak, so I'm not sure whether it
includes any mallet strucks?
tortellini//:debatt |
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| EvilDragon |
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:42 pm |
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Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 268
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Well, there ARE other plugins that do those percussions well, for example
EZdrummer has Latin Percussion addon which is brilliant (but, shame, has no
tablas). I bet Ethno World 4 has something for you too. Etc.
It would be cool to first see more user slots in AD, then newer samples! |
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| Julian J |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:02 pm |
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Joined: 04 Jul 2009
Posts: 1
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debatt wrote: Hellu!
Perhaps an Adpak called Adpak Ethno Drums would be of interest! This should
include djembe, timbales, tablas, congas, quicha etc.
I have just installed my Add drums and RetroPak, so I'm not sure whether it
includes any mallet strucks?
tortellini//:debatt
+1 for this request. Especially the congos and bongos. This is the ADPAK
that I've been waiting for! |
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| hopikiva |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:06 pm |
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 4
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I totally agree and wish for adpaks that include ethno or world drum kits
I do understand that toontrack has the latin stuff, but so what? That has
nothing really to do with AD other than AD doesn't have them and therefore
one would have to use toontrack vsti's to get those sounds.
In short, the point is that AD really 'should' have a set of those sounds
that we could use. This set, or parts of it, should be able to be added to
various pads in other kits also... so for example one could build a normal
kit but with congas or bongos or latin shakers in it...
I hope XLN really does this in the very near future.
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_________________
..beat me up, Scotty... |
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| EvilDragon |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:53 pm |
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Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 268
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For this to be possible, XLN should FIRST introduce the user-settable
number of kitpiece slots, and then the rest!
And then again, I'm still very negative about XLN doing percussions. Not
that I think they'd do it bad, no (they would most certainly do an
excellent job, just like until now!), but I'd definitely like more cymbals
(chinas, spocks, stacks, splashes, effect cymbals) rototoms and octabans,
BEFORE everything else ever comes to planning stage. |
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| Jaco815 |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:55 am |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 174
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EvilDragon wrote: For this to
be possible, XLN should FIRST introduce the user-settable number of
kitpiece slots, and then the rest!
And then again, I'm still very negative about XLN doing percussions. Not
that I think they'd do it bad, no (they would most certainly do an
excellent job, just like until now!), but I'd definitely like more cymbals
(chinas, spocks, stacks, splashes, effect cymbals) rototoms and octabans,
BEFORE everything else ever comes to planning stage.
I agree; +1. I believe these extra pieces that you mention should be
part of the Metal AdPak. Especially with spocks in there- When I think of
spocks, I either think Terry Bozzio or Tomas Haake, and thinking of Terry
Bozzio reminds me of the previously discussed Rototom full kit that could
be a great addition to the metal pack, as would some DW Piccolo Toms, a
Tama Gong Bass Drum, and some Zilbels (so many metal drummers use a Zilbel
as a Ride Bell). But you do seem to express the eventuality of a percussion
AdPak. Think about how awesome it could be if, after we get the update that
allows new kit pieces to be added, if you could load a percussion preset
that would add in all of the channels for the percussion instruments with
separate close mics and the ability to adjust their room and overhead sends
to SEPARATE room, overhead, bus, and master channels. That would allow
totally seperate presets to be loaded, almost like having two instances of
AD running simultaneously within the same window, as each preset would
contain individual close mics for each percussion instrument.
When loading a preset, I think it should have no effect on the current drum
preset, and should load alongside it, with the new set of mixer channels
appearing to the right of the current set with a scroll slider at the
bottom of the window so you could scroll to the right to see all of the
percussion tracks. Having separate mixer channels would allow the preset to
load easily, without having to change much to the way the preset is saved
or loaded, other than that the Percussion room, overhead, bus, and master
channels would have to be titled "Perc. Room" or something like
that. Additionally, seperate channels would give you more eq-ing and
compression options, as well as reverb and fx routing options (and the
number of available reverb slots should be increased to four slots from the
current two so that the percussion can be processed independently of the
drum set reverbs- sometimes you might want to put a dark, dampened room
reverb on the percussion, a bright plate on the snare, and hall reverb on
the toms. On all room, overhead, bus, and master channels, a
"link" button should be included that, when selected, would make
level, fx and insert changes to both the drum set faders and the percussion
set faders, that way you could place the percussion in the same sonic
environment as the drumset, or turn the "link" off to do
something like have the room dry for the drums and really wet for the
percussion.
Dozens of presets should be included that cover classic styles and sounds
such as funk and Motown, vintage latin jazz and samba, modern latin dance,
etc. For saving presets, the file extension for the percussion set could be
something like ".ADPerXpreset" and should have an option under
the top left corner drop-down menu to "Save Percussion" which
could save only the percussion set and fx and inserts, and a separate
"Save Full Scene" option which would save the percussion with the
drum set and all fx and inserts
And then for the sounds... Toontrack already has Latin Percussion, but
that's all they have. XLN can certainly do more. African Djembes and
Talking drums would be a more than welcome addition, plus several different
Udu drums, bata drums, and rainsticks. Some tablas, doumbeks,finger
cymbals, riqs, and darbukas would give a great middle eastern flavor that
would be great for film composers. That is one thing that I like about the
Latin Percussion EZX is the ability to switch out kit pieces, but to have
that kind of flexibility combined with AD's flexible user interface would
be phenomenal so for all instruments, multiple versions (at least 3) of all
instruments should be included, so for example for congas, include maybe
fiberglass, and two different types of wood congas (all tuned slightly
differently) with matching bongos. For cowbells, try to get different
brands and many different sizes within those brands (Meinl, LP, and Gon
Bops are all good). For Timbales, I think it would be good to include 3 or
4 different types to cover a range of sounds- something classic like the LP
Tito Puente Timbales, LP Thunder Timbs, LP Timbalitos, and of course the LP
John Dolmayan Mini Timbales. For Djembes, we need something modern like the
LP Santana Djembe, something very traditional like the Meinl Bougarabou,
and something small like the small Remo Djembe. Include a couple of
different LP Udu drums, and the Meinl IBO drum. I think it would also be
nice to see a few Classic giant gongs and a wind gong (all with mallets and
sticks and AD's cymbal muting) as well as a latin styled cymbal like the
Zildjian Azuka multi-crash, or the Sabian HHX Effeks Crash (played with
hands and sticks with muting) and a very washy China like the Zildjian
Oriental Classic China, a Wuhan china, or the Sabian 19" Paragon china
(also played with hands, sticks and featuring muting).
For all percussion items included in this AdPak, all of the main/common
articulations available to an instrument should be included. For all large
hand drums this means open tone, heel-toe, slap, muted slap, palmed bass
tone, muted bass tone, fingers, and muted fingers should be included- but
this would be the ultimate: for all hand drums, also include sticks and
brushes on both the head center, head edge, and rim click (maybe not the
rim with the brushes) so that way the hand percussion drums could be worked
into the drum set to mimic Dave Weckl or Steve Smith who have both used
hand percussion pieces to great effect on their drumsets (plus congas and
djembes just sound great with sticks and can really add to a song, and I
have seen many conga players play one hand with a stick and the other hand
barehanded). For Tambourines, maracas, shakeres and shakers, include up and
downstrokes, plus hand or thigh smacks with the tambourine (plus slow and
fast looped thumb rolls on the tambourine that last the length of the note
played) to get realistic parts on those instruments. For Timbales, we need
everything currently available to a snare in AD minus the midi doubling on
the open and rimshot, and with the addition of the the cascara (side hit).
For Cowbells, woodblocks, and other things hit with sticks, we need stick
tip and stick shoulder articulations. For Cajons, I thought it would be
truly awesome if its mic channel could be similar to the one available to
the snare with the ability to adjust the amount of buzz and a fader to
select between multiple mic postions, plus an assignable midi CC button on
the window that would allow you to put the cajon foot-pitch-bend-technique
to the pitch wheel and be able to adjust the amount of pitch bend by an
assignable pitch bend range which could be a simple number (although more
than 2 half steps of bending would probably sound completely unnatural- but
some people like that kind of stuff. This assignable pitch CC option could
be applied to kit piece windows for other instruments as well- like talking
drums, congas, and timbales.
Another great feature would be the ability to dump unused articulations to
save RAM (like if you were doing a song in which you wanted a djembe played
with sticks, you could dump all of the other articulations and save 30MB or
more of RAM (although this won't be a problem for me when I obtain a new
computer with 16GB of RAM!)
The hard part would be creating a decent standard midi Map between C-1 and
C0 and beyond B4 to facilitate all of the necessary articulations, and
determine the proper number of percussion pieces that could be included to
get a full percussion section without leaving anything out while still
fitting all of the instruments into the midi map. Maybe instruments like
the tabla could switch out for bongos and djembe or doumbek could switch
out for congas since there would be a similar number of articulations on
those instruments and their sounds are more compatible. The riq or shakere
could switch out for the tambourine; finger cymbals could switch out
castanets, shakers or maracas, etc. Timbales would probably need to stay
put because of the high number of articulations. Whenever you trade one of
these instruments in the standard set, their midi could be automapped in
place of similar articulations from the previous instrument. Of course, you
would have to always be able to delete any instrument and replace it with a
new channel strip and then change the midi map yourself. having this
standardized mid map would make a large library of native beats possible
which could be sorted by instrument just like with the Toontrack Latin
Percussion EZX. All you would have to do is find the instrument you need a
part for, like a timbale roll or something, use the beat transformer on it,
then drop it into your sequencer. I can't speak for other DAW's but in
Logic I could then easily drop another midi file for another instrument on
top of that one and press the merge regions button and that would combine
both parts into one region. One thing XLN could also do would be to include
midi files for a whole percussion section that are in different styles,
like an African 12/8 beat with lots of awesome flams and things on the hand
drums, and then include a feature at the side (maybe where the favorites
window is) that would show the name of all the instruments that are playing
in that midi file, then- just like in EZplayer Pro, you could drag just the
name of that instrument as it's own midi file, or deselect certain
instrument parts to audition it without that instrument, then
simultaneously drag just the ones you want into your DAW. In this way you
could build complex parts even in different cultural styles: have the
congas play a tabla part, for example.
To the XLN people: I've put alot of thought into this product and I figure
that with the amount of work this product would take for you to execute
properly, a good and fair price point would be 150 as an AdPak, but it
could also be sold as a standalone option for maybe 180 to people who are
new to XLN: this would get a number of new customers in the door who are
more interested in Percussion only, and then once they see how great the
user interface is, they will want to expand and purchase the drumsets. This
AdPak should be recorded at one of the same two studios in which you
recorded the other drums to insure sonic compatibility for us current users
and to entice further buys from these new users. This could also Mean that
the original AD could be split into a cheaper AdPak for people that get
into AD this way. Maybe the Retro AdPak should also be offered as a
standalone version for another 30-40 dollars more because I know there have
got to be plenty of people who want just the Retro Kits but don't want to
spend 320 dollars to get there- those Bonham sounds alone are worth any
drum fan owning AD. Does that all sound very good? I certainly think so.
You would increase you marketability to a larger audience, which should be
one of your goals, and it would get a few more people in the door, and stop
a few more Toontrack sales. For someone to use an EZX like the Vintage Rock
EZX, they have to first buy the sub-par EZdrummer when they didn't even
want those sounds in the first place; this all would give a you a definite
advantage over them.
To the forum: If you see any ways to improve on my ideas here, let me know-
I just want to see XLN do good and come out on top of those other two drum
sample companies who have far inferior GUI's and less expressive sounds.
There's absolutely no reason for XLN to be number 3! |
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| EvilDragon |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:21 am |
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Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 268
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Wow, you've really put a LOT of thought into it!
But, you have to think of the "little people" not being able to
have 16 GB of RAM etc.
All your ideas are very fine, but they seem to me a bitch to implement in
AD as it is now - especially the whole "separate room for
percussion" idea. To me, a better idea seems to make a whole new
product, called Addictive
Percussion. Just making a separation. I think that would be much
better solution, IMHO. Because percussion REALLY has a lot of different
articulations going on, it wouldn't be good to cram all those in the MIDI
mapping between standard drums.
I say, if percussion is ever gonna happen for XLN (and IF they manage to
get a hold of all the wonderful percussion instrument models you
mentioned!), they should make it a separate product. Such deeply sampled
percussion could very well cost around 200 euros, and I wouldn't mind if
the job was done even better than Toontrack did! And I think they would do
it - just seeing how mixing in AD is way more flexible than on Toontrack
stuff, makes me drool.
So, don't you think this could be a better solution? Leave AD to do the
drums, and let AP to do the percussion.
My idea for AD would be - allow 32 kitpieces. I think those are more than
enough, IMHO. I can see those could be a BITCH to mix, though I suppose, XLN
should think of a way of showing the whole kit, but not enlarging the
interface (especially the mixer could become really wide) - how about tabs,
like in Firefox? There's a lot of space lost with the drumkit picture in
the middle, and kitpiece slots could be made a little smaller, to
accomodate more of them on the main interface. I think if the kitpiece
window was 6-10 pixels smaller, all 32 kitpiece slots could fit on the
interface.
Also, on my 1280x1024 resolution, there's plenty of screen space available
to even expand AD GUI, if needed. So a new window size for AD wouldn't
hurt, either!
But, we must stop making these long posts, I don't know if XLN guys are
very eager about reading them  |
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| Jaco815 |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:00 pm |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 174
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You know, I really like the "AP" idea- especially if it
incorporates all the same great features as AD, and that would make it a
standalone product that would get people in the door as I said, and I love
your idea of the full articulation mapping. The only problem with this for
me would be not being able to incorporate the percussion pieces into a
drumset using sticks on the djembes and, working in Beauford style
woodblocks and all that stuff. Plus I picture all of the awesome presets
that could be developed that would mimic those goofy sounding congas and
percussion items from the 808's and 909's. As long as the set was recorded
in the same room, and the reverbs and EQ's offered functioned identically,
then I could make it work within two seperate channels. Or if they added an
option to where you could add pieces from one product or another into the
other one and then do your own midi mapping and preset saving, just like
how Toontrack lets you import pieces from the EZX's into Superior- just
think, the Ludwig Vintage snare in AP or a djembe in AD!
The other thing that would worry me about this whole idea of an
"AP" would be that they would somehow change the interface or
something, when I think it is nearly perfect. For mixing, all they need is
a scroll slider at the bottom of the page above or below the mixer panel,
and then you could scroll to the right for as many tracks as you have in
there. And yes- new window size would be much appreciated.
So listen up XLN, Dragon and I have got your ticket into the big leagues-
"Addictive Percussion" (his title), a standalone, multi sampled
monster percussion library with all of the flexibility of AD. New
Customers, new sounds, what's not to love? |
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| EvilDragon |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:20 pm |
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Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 268
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| Well, if they'd use the same packing format for AP (and I presume they
would), those sounds and articulations would naturally be able to carry
between AP and AD. It should be very possible to do. |
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| GetWild |
| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:22 pm |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 24
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Julian J wrote:
+1 for this request. Especially the congos and bongos. This is the ADPAK
that I've been waiting for!
Yes please! And still waiting. Come on XLN, I thought we'd have a
percussion pack by now! Don't make me go to the "dark side"! |
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| DayTripper |
| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:43 am |
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010
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| Here's my vote. I would purchase an Adpak Ethno in a heartbeat. |
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| pepelemofo |
| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:28 pm |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 8
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| +1 on the 'ethnic' AD Pak. Especially, hand drums/percussion with the
appropriately typical rhythms specific to their region - and with all the
typical articulations per instrument as these are very difficult to
program. |
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| vidarski |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:44 pm |
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Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 4
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DayTripper wrote: Here's my
vote. I would purchase an Adpak Ethno in a heartbeat.
+1
I'ts about time now... |
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